"so I have a complicated relationship with the idea of these kinds of men. i mean, nobody can really look like that without huge amounts of work care and time. but the way that these images are presented to us is as if these men kind of, you know, just woke up like this. Um, I think they do a funny thing, depending on who's looking - but I think that is very hard not to look, whoever you are. Um, I think the body. as the site of masculinity, you know, the performance of masculinity, is a very curious thing and I think it's very hard to live uh, in a body that presents as a as a man's body without being aware of these kinds of hmm... i guess kind of archetypes. so, i keep coming back to these images and it's not, it's not always about lust. it's often about an awareness that my body, my mind. responds to these images. as an invitation. for me to measure myself against an ideal. and this ideal. Is a real like you know this this is a real person. but, it actually more fully exists in MY IMAGINATION."